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Aha...mai incearca !Fara analogii.
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Inca o data si in veci vecilor : Hristos a inviat !
"De obicei nu intru in dictutie cu indivizi .... , insa in cazul acesta voi face o exceptie sa iti sugerez sa citesti un pic istoria (da lipsa ta de date face ca anumitor oamenii,mediocrii si lipsiti de educatie ,sa ia de buna cele spuse de tine ) ,nu de alta dar cele spuse de tine sunt o aberatie si nu au nici un fundament real ,erezie si blasfemie ,insa acum ma voi axa pe distrugerea si perpetuarea adevaului istoric , te intreb :cum iti permiti tu ca sa fi nesincer si sa inseli lumea sau mai bine zis de ce ai face acest lucru ? Insa spre dezamagirea ta sunt si oameni ce au citit mai mult de 10 versete din tahor si au o cultura generala buna,avand in acelasi timp si integritate ,atat sociala ,etic-morala,cat si mai ales spirituala . Cineva a spus :" gandirea este cel mai greu lucru de pe lumea asta ,de aceea asa de putini o practica " evident se aplica in cazul mediocritatii si a celora ca tine ce iau de buna fiecare documentar facut in lipsa de dovezi ,ci doar pe pura presupunere ,din perspectiva unor lunatici ,ce au un interes comun spre a sustine sau a dezmintii o teorie ,facand totul dintr-un mare plan (diabolic de altfel ) ,numit de unii oamenii ,ca si teorie a conspiratiei . Dumnezeu sa te lumineze . Amin"
Nu este din fatarnicie ,ci doar un exemplu de a demonstra (ma rog este un cuvant cu o insemnitate prea mare ), ca tot ceea ce spun imi asum,deoarece este adevarat si drept . |
Intrebari
Ben Gal
As fi curios care e pozitia evreilor(sau a ta) cu privire la Isus: 1/N-a existat; 2/A existat,dar a fost un simplu om,fara sa fi facut nimic deosebit(nastere supranaturala,minuni,invieri,propria inviere),in afara faptului ca a umblat de colo-colo,predicand; 3/A facut intr-adevar tot ce scrie in NT ca ar fi facut. 4/Alta varianta(variante)-care? Cu alte cuvinte cam ce si cat din NT considera evreii ca ar fi conform cu realitatea? |
Sunt inversunat
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Sunt multe conditii necesare. Primul: sa nu te minti pe tine insuti. Oare face asta rau cuiva? Paradoxal, da. De ce? Habar nu am. |
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In caz ca a existat optez pt. 2). |
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Am incurajat-o sa scrie pe forum sperind ca va reveni cu ceva inteligibil. Madame! Habar nu am care este problema dv. Ziceti ca sunteti citita? Poate. Ati inteles ceva? Parca n-as crede. |
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ben_gal spune-mi si mie,nu stiu mai nimic despre alte religii dar Mantuitorul Iisus Hristos nu indeplinea toate conditiile de a fi Mesia evreilor?Eu cred ca da.El e cel pe care l-au asteptat.A fost Mesia si nu l-au recunoscut.
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Unii nu vad, altii vad chestiuni care nu exista. |
Argumenteaza-mi te rog de ce Iisus Hristos nu indeplinea conditiile si nu crezi ca el era Mesia.Altfel incerc sa ma conving cu asa zisa credinta a ta si a evreilor.
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Iar pt. a o dobandi si posibil a o pastra, vorbesti de un cumul de conditii. Mi se pare nefiresc, atata vreme cat, rugandu-ma, pot trai, constientiza, pot respira, pot simti pe Dumnezeul cel Viu. Harul Lui este aducator de pace, de liniste si de bucurie. Si toate astea se daruiesc, neconditionat. Nu poti primi ceva ce nu crezi ca exista. |
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O spun cu [falsa] modestie: http://www.simpletoremember.com/arti.../jewsandjesus/ Why Don’t Jews Believe In Jesus? Jewish Beliefs About Jesus And Jews For Jesus For 2,000 years, Jews have rejected the Christian idea of Jesus as messiah. Why? It is important to understand why Jews don’t believe in Jesus. The purpose is not to disparage other religions, but rather to clarify the Jewish position. The more data that’s available, the better-informed choices people can make about their spiritual path. JEWS DO NOT ACCEPT JESUS AS THE MESSIAH BECAUSE: Intro: (What exactly is the Messiah?) 1. Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies. 2. Jesus did not embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah. 3. Biblical verses "referring" to Jesus are mistranslations. 4. Jewish belief is based on national revelation. 5. At the end of this article, we will examine these additional topics: Christianity contradicts Jewish theology 6. Jews and Gentiles 7. Bringing the Messiah MORE RESOURCES + JUDAISM & OTHER RELIGIONS (AT BOTTOM) What exactly is the Messiah? (back) The word “Messiah” is an English rendering of the Hebrew word “Mashiach”, which means “Anointed.” It usually refers to a person initiated into God’s service by being anointed with oil. (Exodus 29:7, I Kings 1:39, II Kings 9:3) Since every King and High Priest was anointed with oil, each may be referred to as “an anointed one” (a Mashiach or a Messiah). For example: “God forbid that I [David] should stretch out my hand against the Lord’s Messiah [Saul]...” (I Samuel 26:11. Cf. II Samuel 23:1, Isaiah 45:1, Psalms 20:6) Where does the Jewish concept of Messiah come from? One of the central themes of Biblical prophecy is the promise of a future age of perfection characterized by universal peace and recognition of God. (Isaiah 2:1-4; Zephaniah 3:9; Hosea 2:20-22; Amos 9:13-15; Isaiah 32:15-18, 60:15-18; Micah 4:1-4; Zechariah 8:23, 14:9; Jeremiah 31:33-34) Many of these prophetic passages speak of a descendant of King David who will rule Israel during the age of perfection. (Isaiah 11:1-9; Jeremiah 23:5-6, 30:7-10, 33:14-16; Ezekiel 34:11-31, 37:21-28; Hosea 3:4-5) Since every King is a Messiah, by convention, we refer to this future anointed king as The Messiah. The above is the only description in the Bible of a Davidic descendant who is to come in the future. We will recognize the Messiah by seeing who the King of Israel is at the time of complete universal perfection. 1) JESUS DID NOT FULFILL THE MESSIANIC PROPHECIES (back) What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? The Bible says that he will: A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28). B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6). C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4) D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world—on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9). The historical fact is that Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies. Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming, but Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright, and no concept of a second coming exists. 2) JESUS DID NOT EMBODY THE PERSONAL QUALIFICATIONS OF MESSIAH (back) A. MESSIAH AS PROPHET Jesus was not a prophet. Prophecy can only exist in Israel when the land is inhabited by a majority of world Jewry. During the time of Ezra (circa 300 BCE), when the majority of Jews refused to move from Babylon to Israel, prophecy ended upon the death of the last prophets—Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi. Jesus appeared on the scene approximately 350 years after prophecy had ended. B. DESCENDENT OF DAVID According to Jewish sources, the Messiah will be born of human parents and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be a demi-god, (1) nor will he possess supernatural qualities. The Messiah must be descended on his father’s side from King David (see Genesis 49:10 and Isaiah 11:1). According to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father—and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father’s side from King David! (2) SEE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH’S RESPONSE TO THIS QUESTION C. TORAH OBSERVANCE The Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. The Torah states that all mitzvot (commandments) remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. (Deut. 13:1-4) Throughout the New Testament, Jesus contradicts the Torah and states that its commandments are no longer applicable. (see John 1:45 and 9:16, Acts 3:22 and 7:37) For example, John 9:14 records that Jesus made a paste in violation of Shabbat, which caused the Pharisees to say (verse 16), "He does not observe Shabbat!" 3) MISTRANSLATED VERSES "REFERRING" TO JESUS (back) Biblical verses can only be understood by studying the original Hebrew text—which reveals many discrepancies in the Christian translation. A. VIRGIN BIRTH The Christian idea of a virgin birth is derived from the verse in Isaiah 7:14 describing an "alma" as giving birth. The word "alma" has always meant a young woman, but Christian theologians came centuries later and translated it as "virgin." This accords Jesus’ birth with the first century pagan idea of mortals being impregnated by gods. B. CRUCIFIXION The verse in Psalms 22:17 reads: "Like a lion, they are at my hands and feet." The Hebrew word ki-ari (like a lion) is grammatically similar to the word "gouged." Thus Christianity reads the verse as a reference to crucifixion: "They pierced my hands and feet." C. SUFFERING SERVANT Christianity claims that Isaiah chapter 53 refers to Jesus, as the "suffering servant." In actuality, Isaiah 53 directly follows the theme of chapter 52, describing the exile and redemption of the Jewish people. The prophecies are written in the singular form because the Jews ("Israel") are regarded as one unit. The Torah is filled with examples of the Jewish nation referred to with a singular pronoun. Ironically, Isaiah’s prophecies of persecution refer in part to the 11th century when Jews were tortured and killed by Crusaders who acted in the name of Jesus. From where did these mistranslations stem? St. Gregory, 4th century Bishop of Nazianzus, wrote: "A little jargon is all that is necessary to impose on the people. The less they comprehend, the more they admire." For further reading on the "suffering servant": jewsforjudaism.org/ss 4) JEWISH BELIEF IS BASED SOLELY ON NATIONAL REVELATION (back) Of the 15,000 religions in human history, only Judaism bases its belief on national revelation—i.e. God speaking to the entire nation. If God is going to start a religion, it makes sense He’ll tell everyone, not just one person. Va urma |
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Throughout history, thousands of religions have been started by individuals, attempting to convince people that he or she is God’s true prophet. But personal revelation is an extremely weak basis for a religion because one can never know if it is indeed true. Since others did not hear God speak to this person, they have to take his word for it. Even if the individual claiming personal revelation performs miracles, there is still no verification that he is a genuine prophet. Miracles do not prove anything. All they show—assuming they are genuine—is that he has certain powers. It has nothing to do with his claim of prophecy. Judaism, unique among all of the world’s major religions, does not rely on "claims of miracles" as the basis for its religion. In fact, the Bible says that God sometimes grants the power of "miracles" to charlatans, in order to test Jewish loyalty to the Torah (Deut. 13:4). Maimonides states (Foundations of Torah, ch. 8): The Jews did not believe in Moses, our teacher, because of the miracles he performed. Whenever anyone’s belief is based on seeing miracles, he has lingering doubts, because it is possible the miracles were performed through magic or sorcery. All of the miracles performed by Moses in the desert were because they were necessary, and not as proof of his prophecy. What then was the basis of [Jewish] belief? The Revelation at Mount Sinai, which we saw with our own eyes and heard with our own ears, not dependent on the testimony of others… as it says, "Face to face, God spoke with you…" The Torah also states: "God did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us—who are all here alive today." (Deut. 5:3) Judaism is not miracles. It is the personal eyewitness experience of every man, woman and child, standing at Mount Sinai 3,300 years ago. See "Did God Speak at Mount Sinai" for further reading. 5) CHRISTIANITY CONTRADICTS JEWISH THEOLOGY (back) The following theological points apply primarily to the Roman Catholic Church, the largest Christian denomination. A. GOD AS THREE? The Catholic idea of Trinity breaks God into three separate beings: The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost (Matthew 28:19). Contrast this to the Shema, the basis of Jewish belief: "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is ONE" (Deut. 6:4). Jews declare the Shema every day, while writing it on doorposts (Mezuzah), and binding it to the hand and head (Tefillin). This statement of God’s One-ness is the first words a Jewish child is taught to say, and the last words uttered before a Jew dies. In Jewish law, worship of a three-part god is considered idolatry—one of the three cardinal sins that a Jew should rather give up his life than transgress. This explains why during the Inquisitions and throughout history, Jews gave up their lives rather than convert. B. MAN AS GOD? Roman Catholics believe that God came down to earth in human form, as Jesus said: "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30). Maimonides devotes most of the "Guide for the Perplexed" to the fundamental idea that God is incorporeal, meaning that He assumes no physical form. God is Eternal, above time. He is Infinite, beyond space. He cannot be born, and cannot die. Saying that God assumes human form makes God small, diminishing both His unity and His divinity. As the Torah says: "God is not a mortal" (Numbers 23:19). Judaism says that the Messiah will be born of human parents, and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be a demi-god, and will not possess supernatural qualities. In fact, an individual is alive in every generation with the capacity to step into the role of the Messiah. (see Maimonides - Laws of Kings 11:3) C. INTERMEDIARY FOR PRAYER? The Catholic belief is that prayer must be directed through an intermediary—i.e. confessing one’s sins to a priest. Jesus himself is an intermediary, as Jesus said: "No man cometh unto the Father but by me." In Judaism, prayer is a totally private matter, between each individual and God. As the Bible says: "God is near to all who call unto Him" (Psalms 145:18). Further, the Ten Commandments state: "You shall have no other gods BEFORE ME," meaning that it is forbidden to set up a mediator between God and man. (see Maimonides - Laws of Idolatry ch. 1) D. INVOLVEMENT IN THE PHYSICAL WORLD Catholic doctrine often treats the physical world as an evil to be avoided. Mary, the holiest woman, is portrayed as a virgin. Priests and nuns are celibate. And monasteries are in remote, secluded locations. By contrast, Judaism believes that God created the physical world not to frustrate us, but for our pleasure. Jewish spirituality comes through grappling with the mundane world in a way that uplifts and elevates. Sex in the proper context is one of the holiest acts we can perform. The Talmud says if a person has the opportunity to taste a new fruit and refuses to do so, he will have to account for that in the World to Come. Jewish rabbinical schools teach how to live amidst the bustle of commercial activity. Jews don’t retreat from life, we elevate it. 6) JEWS AND GENTILES (back) Judaism does not demand that everyone convert to the religion. The Torah of Moses is a truth for all humanity, whether Jewish or not. King Solomon asked God to heed the prayers of non-Jews who come to the Holy Temple (Kings I 8:41-43). The prophet Isaiah refers to the Temple as a "House for all nations." The Temple service during Sukkot featured 70 bull offerings, corresponding to the 70 nations of the world. The Talmud says that if the Romans would have realized how much benefit they were getting from the Temple, they’d never have destroyed it. Jews have never actively sought converts to Judaism because the Torah prescribes a righteous path for gentiles to follow, known as the "Seven Laws of Noah." Maimonides explains that any human being who faithfully observes these basic moral laws earns a proper place in heaven. For further study of the Seven Laws of Noah: The Seven Laws of Noah 7) BRINGING THE MESSIAH (back) Maimonides states that the popularity of Christianity (and Islam) is part of God’s plan to spread the ideals of Torah throughout the world. This moves society closer to a perfected state of morality and toward a greater understanding of God. All this is in preparation for the Messianic age. Indeed, the world is in desperate need of Messianic redemption. War and pollution threaten our planet; ego and confusion erode family life. To the extent we are aware of the problems of society, is the extent we will yearn for redemption. As the Talmud says, one of the first questions a Jew is asked on Judgment Day is: "Did you yearn for the arrival of the Messiah?" How can we hasten the coming of the Messiah? The best way is to love all humanity generously, to keep the mitzvot of the Torah (as best we can), and to encourage others to do so as well. Despite the gloom, the world does seem headed toward redemption. One apparent sign is that the Jewish people have returned to the Land of Israel and made it bloom again. Additionally, a major movement is afoot of young Jews returning to Torah tradition. The Messiah can come at any moment, and it all depends on our actions. God is ready when we are. For as King David says: "Redemption will come today—if you hearken to His voice." by Rabbi Shraga Simmons |
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Pare ca rabinul este convingator. |
...mai ales ca scrie in engleza un text luuung...
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asta asa este unii vor ramine prosti. |
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"se predica in romana"
asta asa este unii vor ramine prosti. Limbile straine simt importante. Al meu Grivei cunoaste Canina. Bengatutzul stie limba Marelui Trib Al Tigrilor Mici. etc. In ziua de azi fara limbi straine te poti [SCUZE] KK pe tine. |
Unde scrie ca toti inteligentii trebuie sa stie engleza? Poate stiu alte limbi pe care ds nici nu le intuiti.
Si chiar daca ar fi multi prosti pe aici, multumiti-I lui Dumnezeu pentru ei. Daca ar fi toti destepti v-ar dobori complexele de inferioritate. Asa aveti si dvs ocazia sa va simtiti mai sus ca altii... |
Excelent. O asemenea provocare, de nivel suburban, n-am primit, ce-i drept, niciodata.
Prozatorul si (ocazional) poetul ben_galez sa fi epuizat argumentele forte ? Oricum, multam. Gratuit si nedureros aflam cum stam realmente cu smerenia. |
Daca Grivei Vb Canina, tu vorbesti prosteasca nu?
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ben_gal
Scopul nostru este sa vedem cum gandeste un evreu.Nu vei putea sa ne convingi ca acel Yeshua nu este chiar Dumnezeu,pentru ca noi suntem mai liberi ca tine de anumite constrangeri dobandite de tine prin nastere .Vedem lucrurile mai finut,nu suntem stransi de o Lege,pe care Iisus a desavarsit-o. Nici noi nu te vom putea convinge ca El este Fiul lui Dumnezeu,caci ar insemna sa iti tradezi credinta.Este un dialog in care noi suntem curiosi cum gandesti ,iar tu nu stiu exact ce poti dobandi. Asa ca v-as ruga sa il respectati pe ben_gal ca pe o pretioasa sursa de informare,si sa il acceptati asa cum e |
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Cit despre "respect": domnilor si doamnelor de pe intinsele pajisti mioritice cu iarbe verde et suculenta! Va rog sa ma atacati [daca puteti, adica daca va tin baieririle, adica daca va tin balamalele...in fine]. Cit despre Yeshua.. Din partea mea sa faca ce vrea. |
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Care-i baiul?, aka care-i problema matale? Apropo: Nu scriu poezii penca nu-s talentat. |
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(A propos, catolicii de pe aici nu v-au dat inca satisfactie, nimic, nimic.....?) |
Unde scrie ca toti inteligentii trebuie sa stie engleza? Poate stiu alte limbi pe car
Unde scrie ca toti inteligentii trebuie sa stie engleza? Poate stiu alte limbi pe care ds nici nu le intuiti.
Au veni martienii? |
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Asa ca am vrut sa subliniez ca tu nu esti luat in serios ca un atacator asupra ortodoxiei,pentru ca ,cu voi evreii,a luptat direct insusi Dumnezeu cel intrupat . Multi dintre evrei au crezut in El,dar si multi l-au privit ca un dusman. Eu va privesc cu drag si respect,pentru ca voi ne sunteti stramosii tuturor de azi. Razboiul vostru nu este cu noi,ortodoxi sau crestini,ci cu Dumnezeu care v-a folosit pe voi,pentru a ajunge la inima noastra,dar care pana la final nu va va parasi ,dupa cum e scris ca Dumnezeu adresandu-se lui Israel spune: "Cu nici un chip nu te voi lasa,de loc nu te voi parasi .Poate mama sa isi abandoneze copilul?Chiar daca mama isi va abndona copilul Eu tot nu te voi parasi" |
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Uite un compliment de la mine ca sa vezi ca nu te urasc :10: |
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Chiar incepusem sa ma spariu. Si rectificare. Majoritea evreilor nu l-au privit deloc. |
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poezele nu am. Ma urasc prostii, asa ca... |
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Imi place mai ales aia cu "Bate și ți se va deschide" |
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from same site: <<Currently 72% of the Jewish people today are intermarrying We lose approximately 100 Jews everyday to intermarriage and assimilation. *amongst non-orthodox American Jews 50% of all Jewish college students have one Jewish parent>> Consider the following statistics*: Jewish identity is declining sharply. Of 5.6 million Jews, 2 million American Jews live in households identified as non-Jewish 60% of Jews below 40 years of age live in households identified as non-Jewish 20% of Jews over 60 years of age live in households identified as non-Jewish Intermarriage rates are increasing dramatically. Before 1965, 10% of Jews who married, did so outside the faith. Since 1985, 52% of Jews who married have done so outside the faith. Children are being raised as non-Jews. 1 million, or 54% of all American Jewish children under the age of 18 are being raised as non-Jews or with no religion. Fertility Rates are not high enough to replenish the religion. The average fertility rate of American Jewish women is 1.4 children per household. The replacement level is 2.1 children. Less emphasis is being placed on a Jewish education. In 1962, 540,000 Jewish children were attending afternoon weekend schools, and 60,000 were enrolled in day schools. By 1990, fewer than 240,000 Jewish children attended afternoon /weekend schools and 140,000 attended day schools. NET LOSS—220,000 Jewish children. Traditional Shabbat observance is extremely low. Only 36% of Jewish households light the Shabbat Candles. Of the population that consists of people who were born Jewish and are Jewish by choice, only 11% attend synagogue weekly. njop.org * All Statistics taken from Council of Jewish Federations’ 1990 National Jewish Population Survey. This is the most comprehensive source of American Jewish data available>>> |
Vaiiiii, nu se poate asa ceva, ai inteles gresit, permite-mi sa ma corectez. Limba romana e o limba simpla, pentru oameni simpli, nu stiu cum poate domnia voastra sa se coboare la un astfel de nivel.
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