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nazzik 17.12.2009 23:08:10

Acatistul Maicii Domnului în pictura murala
 
Ne pare rău, eu nu știu cum să scrie în limba română ...
but would you please help me to clarify some information on the pictoral cycles of the Akathistos Hymn for the Virgin in the Romanian monumental painting.

1. Is there Akathistos cycle in the St.Nikolaos church in Curtea de Argeș, in the St. Demetrios church in Suceava and in Stănești?
2. Was the Akathistos cycle from Părhăuți ever published ?

Vă mulțumesc anticipat

elizabeta 17.12.2009 23:17:58

Citat:

În prealabil postat de nazzik (Post 192320)
Ne pare rău, eu nu știu cum să scrie în limba română ...
but would you please help me to clarify some information on the pictoral cycles of the Akathistos Hymn for the Virgin in the Romanian monumental painting.

1. Is there Akathistos cycle in the St.Nikolaos church in Curtea de Argeș, in the St. Demetrios church in Suceava and in Stănești?
2. Was the Akathistos cycle from Părhăuți ever published ?

Vă mulțumesc anticipat

In ce limba vrei sa ti se raspunda?

nazzik 17.12.2009 23:40:48

if it possible english please )

elizabeta 18.12.2009 00:24:29

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În prealabil postat de nazzik (Post 192337)
if it possible english please )

I am not very sure I understood the question correctly, but I will try my best to answer you.
1. The church in Curtea de Arges, dedicated to Saint Nicholas, is the only remaining Romanian religious site which still has the original paintings from around year 1300 on the exterior walls. Generations of Romanian rullers added new layers of paintings above the old ones.
Many of these paintings represent the Blessed Virgin Mary, during the most important episodes in Her life: being pregnant with Christ, when they had to register and follow the Roman rule requested for the indogenous population, and also with baby Jesus in Her arms.
The colors and representation are not always folowing the "canon" of the church - remainding more of Renaiscence than Orthodoxy...but in all its splendour, these icons praise the life and therefore the Acatist of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

About the other churches I personally do not know enough, but maybe someone else will answer you...

nazzik 18.12.2009 00:51:11

thank you very much.

Fani71 18.12.2009 01:24:23

Citat:

În prealabil postat de nazzik (Post 192351)
thank you very much.

I know someone who wrote a doctor thesis about it. I don't know if it is published.

elizabeta 18.12.2009 11:00:36

Citat:

În prealabil postat de nazzik (Post 192351)
thank you very much.

...welcome...:5:

windorin 18.12.2009 12:40:55

I found an article about The Akathistos Hymn. It is in romanian, but maybe it helps. It is about its composition.
The pictures are from the Moldavian monasteries. These monasteries still keep their original paintings.

nazzik 18.12.2009 16:01:01

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În prealabil postat de Fani71 (Post 192362)
I know someone who wrote a doctor thesis about it. I don't know if it is published.

would you please provide me information how can i contact this person?

nazzik 18.12.2009 16:03:12

Citat:

În prealabil postat de windorin (Post 192460)
I found an article about The Akathistos Hymn. It is in romanian, but maybe it helps. It is about its composition.
The pictures are from the Moldavian monasteries. These monasteries still keep their original paintings.

I have seen this article and i have been to South Bukovina :) But nevertheless thank you for your reply.

Fani71 18.12.2009 16:29:37

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În prealabil postat de nazzik (Post 192510)
would you please provide me information how can i contact this person?

The person I wrote you about is Dr Ioana Iancovescu.

She works also at the National Museum of Art
http://www.mnar.arts.ro/EN_conservation.php

Perhaps you can find out more about her work (if it is what you are looking for or not) on the internet or writing there.

Good luck!

nazzik 18.12.2009 17:42:50

thank you very much

andreicozia 18.12.2009 18:16:30

Citat:

În prealabil postat de nazzik (Post 192320)
please help me to clarify some information on the pictoral cycles of the Akathistos Hymn for the Virgin in the Romanian monumental painting.

1. Is there Akathistos cycle in the St.Nikolaos church in Curtea de Argeș, in the St. Demetrios church in Suceava and in Stănești?
2. Was the Akathistos cycle from Părhăuți ever published ?


Personally, I have a hard time immagining what you are trying to say , what Acathist included in the frescoes? I've worked on frescoes and mosaics in Romanian churches and abroad but I've never seen the represented iconography follow any other rules but the ones set-out by the Erminia . The interiors of the churches that were listed by you, do indeed have a limited number of scenes that contain the life of the Mother of God, but to imply that they are part of a succesion of scenes described in the Acathist would be a bit to much.

Thie thesis must have a poetic origin...which I guess it could be accepted as literature, it sounds uplifting on paper..., but, let's face it, it has no real back-up

nazzik 18.12.2009 18:57:21

2andreicozia,
thank you for your reply and i am very sory my message made you "hard time immagining" but i have to to ask you more questions :)

You wrote: "The interiors of the churches that were listed by you, do indeed have a limited number of scenes that contain the life of the Mother of God, but to imply that they are part of a succesion of scenes described in the Acathist would be a bit to much." Did you mean all the churches I have mentioned, including Părhăuți ? Are you sure there is no Akathitos cycle in the interior of Părhăuți? Have you been there? May be you can provide some photos from pronaos of Părhăuți?

If any part of this message does not make any sense to you, please point it out directly and i will made my best to clarify what i am trinig to say. Thank you once more.

Fani71 18.12.2009 19:03:45

Citat:

În prealabil postat de andreicozia (Post 192533)
Personally, I have a hard time immagining what you are trying to say , what Acathist included in the frescoes? I've worked on frescoes and mosaics in Romanian churches and abroad but I've never seen the represented iconography follow any other rules but the ones set-out by the Erminia . The interiors of the churches that were listed by you, do indeed have a limited number of scenes that contain the life of the Mother of God, but to imply that they are part of a succesion of scenes described in the Acathist would be a bit to much.

Thie thesis must have a poetic origin...which I guess it could be accepted as literature, it sounds uplifting on paper..., but, let's face it, it has no real back-up

I am sure there are such icons. It is a cycle representing the Acatist - it is not well known, it is true.

andreicozia 18.12.2009 19:30:28

Citat:

În prealabil postat de Fani71 (Post 192546)
I am sure there are such icons. It is a cycle representing the Acatist - it is not well known, it is true.

Inteleg ce spui Fani, da exista icoane superbe care urmaresc sa zicem, pagina cu pagina un acatist sau paraclis prin micile icoane marginale sau chiar interioare asa cum am vazut la rusi , insa Titlul tezei de doctorat se refera la pictura MURALA, pe perete, nu de icoane individuale.
Pe pereti te asigur ca nu exista nicaieri asa ceva

nazzik 18.12.2009 19:55:54

Citat:

În prealabil postat de andreicozia (Post 192554)
Inteleg ce spui Fani, da exista icoane superbe care urmaresc sa zicem, pagina cu pagina un acatist sau paraclis prin micile icoane marginale sau chiar interioare asa cum am vazut la rusi , insa Titlul tezei de doctorat se refera la pictura MURALA, pe perete, nu de icoane individuale.
Pe pereti te asigur ca nu exista nicaieri asa ceva

at last i understood what have you misuderstood )

May i sugest you some basic reading:
Pätzold А. Der Akathistos-Hymnos: Die Bilderzyklen in der byzantinischen Wandmalerei des 14. Jahrhunderts. – Stuttgart, 1989.
Spatharakis I. The Pictoral Cycles of the Akathistos Hymn for the Virgin. – Leiden, 2005.
Crăciunaș I. Acatistul Maicii Domnului în pictura exterioară din Moldova // Mitropolia Moldovei ș Sucevei. – 1972. – XLVIII. – Nr. 5 - 6. – P. 297-340, Nr. 7 - 8. – P. 297-340.

if you will still question existance of Akathistos cycles in the monumental painting just read inscriptions on such paintings from Romanian churches for examp. in Humor or Moldovitca or in Cozia.

Fani71 18.12.2009 20:03:01

Citat:

În prealabil postat de andreicozia (Post 192554)
Inteleg ce spui Fani, da exista icoane superbe care urmaresc sa zicem, pagina cu pagina un acatist sau paraclis prin micile icoane marginale sau chiar interioare asa cum am vazut la rusi , insa Titlul tezei de doctorat se refera la pictura MURALA, pe perete, nu de icoane individuale.
Pe pereti te asigur ca nu exista nicaieri asa ceva

Nu stiu de unde stii sigur, eu stiu sigur ca este. ;-) de care ziceam a studiat acest subiect in amanunt, daca nu ma insel mai ales pt manastirile din Oltenia.

elizabeta 18.12.2009 20:53:17

If u need the information for yr PhD thesys, then documenting from the right source is essential, as u already know; and that means getting in touch with the right people - university PhDs, ministerial officials or clerical experts - either by starting correspondence with them, or by going to the site in person.
No matter how much people try to help you, the things we say might not be a reliable source of information...
...but that doesn't mean we don't try...:5:

andreicozia 18.12.2009 21:27:55

Citat:

În prealabil postat de Fani71 (Post 192560)
Nu stiu de unde stii sigur, eu stiu sigur ca este. ;-) de care ziceam a studiat acest subiect in amanunt, daca nu ma insel mai ales pt manastirile din Oltenia.

:))) Pai normal ca nu ai de unde sa stii :) ca doar nu ne cunoastem personal, dar unii de aici ma cunosc si stiu ca eu mi-am petrecut mult timp pe schela in biserici...de acolo stiu, insa evident ca nu le stiu pe toate :)), insa daca ai un exemplu de reprezentare MURALA a unui Acatist, poate-l trimiti si spre mine, sub forma de fotografie, sau informatie din sursa serioasa nu din vorbe
Multumesc anticipat

nazzik 18.12.2009 21:29:54

2Eliazabeth,
you are absolutly right and thank you very much for your valuable advise ;-)

elizabeta 18.12.2009 21:34:45

Citat:

În prealabil postat de nazzik (Post 192590)
2Eliazabeth,
you are absolutly right and thank you very much for your valuable advise ;-)

...no problem...if we can be of assistance in other ways... feel free to ask!


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