exista extraterestri?

[georgeval]

În prealabil postat de Florin-Ionut

Ba eu spun ca exista, na. Asa cred eu, e parerea mea. Sunt asadar un eretic?... Contravine ideea ca nu suntem singuri pe Pamant (a se intelege in Univers) cu Scriptura sau cu Traditia ortodoxa? Bineinteles ca ma refer la alte fiinte create de Dumnezeu si care nu sunt ingeri.

Sincer, ma intereseaza daca parerea ta poate fi argumentata Biblic si cu temeiuri din Sfanta Traditie. Mai bine zis, aceasta parere are temei in revelatie???

[Florin-Ionut]

În prealabil postat de georgeval

Sincer, ma intereseaza daca parerea ta poate fi argumentata Biblic si cu temeiuri din Sfanta Traditie. Mai bine zis, aceasta parere are temei in revelatie???

Eu incerc sa adun argumente pro scripturale, ca exista alte civilizatii:

Matei 24, 31: Şi va trimite pe îngerii Săi, cu sunet mare de trâmbiţă, şi vor aduna pe cei aleşi ai Lui din cele patru vânturi, de la marginile cerurilor până la celelalte margini.

Marcu 13, 27: Şi atunci El va trimite pe îngeri şi va aduna pe aleşii Săi din cele patru vânturi, de la marginea pământului până la marginea cerului.

Ioan 10, 16: Am şi alte oi, care nu sunt din staulul acesta. Şi pe acelea trebuie să le aduc, şi vor auzi glasul Meu şi va fi o turmă şi un păstor.

Din rugaciunea Euharistiei: "Beti dintru acesta toti, ca acesta este sangele meu, al Legii celei noi, care pentru voi si pentru multi se varsa spre iertarea pacatelor." - compilatie intre Luca 22, 20 si Marcu 14, 24

Primele doua versete imi arata clar ca ingerii vor alerga atunci si vor aduna de la o margine la alta a cerului (sau de la marginea pamantului pana la marginea cerului) pe alesii Lui - aici nu mai e vorba de ingeri, pentru ca ei insisi vor fi cei care ii vor aduna pe "alesi", nu? Deci cine sunt acei alesi care locuiesc prin Univers, nu pe Pamant?

Ultimele doua argumente pot fi combatute, caci Hristos S-ar fi referit la evrei si la neamuri, insa nu are nimeni certitudinea. Poate ca a mentionat oamenii si alte fiinte ne-pamantene.

Argumentul Matei 24, 31 l-am auzit intr-o conferinta din gura Parintelui Galeriu. Mi l-am notat imediat ca sa nu-l uit... A fost raspunsul sau la intrebarea venita din sala: credeti ca exista viata extraterestra?


Acum sa te intreb si eu: exista argumente scripturale sau chiar in Traditie impotriva a ce sustin mai sus?

[tigerAvalo9]

Voi cand va ganditi la extraterestri sa va ganditi la o bacterie pe alta planeta,la microbi nu la omuleti verzi si OZN,desigur ca exista viata pe alta planeta la cat de mare si misterios e Universul asta.

[moshu]

În prealabil postat de orlandosorin

Conform OMS 40% din populatia globului are probleme neuro-psihice.
De la banala depresie la alzheimer. Simpla depresie este o boala destul de grava iar netratata duce la sinucidere. Depresivul are impresia ca moare in fiecare secunda si traieste permanent cu spaima mortii. In final cedeaza si se arunca de la etaj. Din fericire exista tratament eficient pentru asa ceva (insa trebuie luata din start).
In privinta celor care ,,vad'' OZN-uri si extraterestri boala se cheama delirum-tremens apare la alcoolici (chiar daca nu se imbata zilnici ci numai obisnuiesc sa bea obisnuit insa constant) sau din stres. Este recomandat repaus total (vacanta) si abstinenta totala alcool, cafea etc, eventual un regim de 1 luna si ar trebui sa nu mai apara extraterestri.
Pentru cei care aud voci deja lucrurile sunt grave intrucat sunt suspecti de schizofrenie paranoica - boala incurabila. Suspectul de schizofrenie trebuie urgent perezentat la medic (eventual cu politia intrucat este deosebit de periculos).

Ba nu.

În prealabil postat de Florin-Ionut

Ba eu spun ca exista, na. Asa cred eu, e parerea mea. Sunt asadar un eretic?... Contravine ideea ca nu suntem singuri pe Pamant (a se intelege in Univers) cu Scriptura sau cu Traditia ortodoxa? Bineinteles ca ma refer la alte fiinte create de Dumnezeu si care nu sunt ingeri.

Contravine sfaturilor recente ale teologilor. Recente, pentru ca si extraterestrii sunt recenti, si de aceea nu gasesti in Sf. Traditie sau Scriptura asa ceva. Ce gasesti in ele sunt sfaturi impotriva demonilor-vizitatori, incubus, s.a.m.d.

În prealabil postat de Florin-Ionut

Eu incerc sa adun argumente pro scripturale, ca exista alte civilizatii:

1Matei 24, 31: Şi va trimite pe îngerii Săi, cu sunet mare de trâmbiţă, şi vor aduna pe cei aleşi ai Lui din cele patru vânturi, de la marginile cerurilor până la celelalte margini.

1Marcu 13, 27: Şi atunci El va trimite pe îngeri şi va aduna pe aleşii Săi din cele patru vânturi, de la marginea pământului până la marginea cerului.

2Ioan 10, 16: Am şi alte oi, care nu sunt din staulul acesta. Şi pe acelea trebuie să le aduc, şi vor auzi glasul Meu şi va fi o turmă şi un păstor.

3Din rugaciunea Euharistiei: "Beti dintru acesta toti, ca acesta este sangele meu, al Legii celei noi, care pentru voi si pentru multi se varsa spre iertarea pacatelor." - compilatie intre Luca 22, 20 si Marcu 14, 24

4Primele doua versete imi arata clar ca ingerii vor alerga atunci si vor aduna de la o margine la alta a cerului (sau de la marginea pamantului pana la marginea cerului) pe alesii Lui - aici nu mai e vorba de ingeri, pentru ca ei insisi vor fi cei care ii vor aduna pe "alesi", nu? Deci cine sunt acei alesi care locuiesc prin Univers, nu pe Pamant?

5Ultimele doua argumente pot fi combatute, caci Hristos S-ar fi referit la evrei si la neamuri, insa nu are nimeni certitudinea. Poate ca a mentionat oamenii si alte fiinte ne-pamantene.

Argumentul Matei 24, 31 l-am auzit intr-o conferinta din gura Parintelui Galeriu. Mi l-am notat imediat ca sa nu-l uit... A fost raspunsul sau la intrebarea venita din sala: credeti ca exista viata extraterestra?


6Acum sa te intreb si eu: exista argumente scripturale sau chiar in Traditie impotriva a ce sustin mai sus?

1. se refera la marginea lumii vazute cu cea nevazute. se refera la adunarea oamenilor din lumea terestra, si nu a ingerilor din lumea nevazuta.
2. se refera la alte neamuri. daca Iisus nu continua sa faca aluzii la alte neamuri, la "strainul din casa ta" etc etc, atunci crestinismul nu ar mai fi existat, doar evreii ar fi ramas "poporul ales".
3. se refera ca pentru multi se varsa sangele, fara nicio aluzie la alte neamuri sau civilazitii: descrie doar o valoare cantitativa, multi.
4. alesii locuiesc pe pamant. Se spune asta in Biblie, si nici nu se specifica ca ar mai alte "natii"
5. nu. nu s-a referit la aliensi, exista certitudinea, eu nu o am, dar poti sa studiezi Biblia in continuare.
6. exista, numai ca se refera la imaginea extraterestrilor ca fiind demoni. Pe vremea Bibliei si a Sf. Scripturi incoace pana cand omul a inceput sa deseneze machete de zbor si sa aiba visuri inalte NU au fost remarcati extraterestri. Toti se refera la demoni, numai ca in timpul nostru, dat faptul ca oamenii s-ar pocai daca ar vedea infatisarea reala a vreunui inger sau demon, dracu incearca sa ieie alta ipostasuri pentru a fraieri lumea. Si se leaga tot mai mult de stiinta, ca sa ii atraga pe cei mai rationali prima data, prostii fiind influentati usori de afirmatiile primilor prin mass-media. De fapt, nu cred ca ar fi fost vazut vreun extraterestru pana acum, in afara de Alien, care acum isi face toaleta la paraiasul din oras.

În prealabil postat de tigerAvalo9

Voi cand va ganditi la extraterestri sa va ganditi la o bacterie pe alta planeta,la microbi nu la omuleti verzi si OZN,desigur ca exista viata pe alta planeta la cat de mare si misterios e Universul asta.

Alien nu este o bacterie. E o colonie intreaga. Si nu uita ca universul este maaare si misterios, insa nu ataaat de mare, de fapt, este foarte intolerant si finit.

Am citit o carte tare, puteti sa o scoateti si voi de pe DC sau torrenti. Se numeste Discover.20.Things.You.Didn't.Know.About.Everythin g. Reproduc imediat capitolul despre extraterestri, gata tradus in romana (sper).

[moshu]

Ok, nu mai traduc, citez aici cele mai interesante articole din cele 20.

3. CAN YOU DETECT ME NOW? Among other notables, several U.S. presidents have either seen UFOs or had access to information about them. But so far none has made a definite statement yea or nay.
Bill Holden, a steward on board Air Force One with John F. Kennedy, once asked JFK what he thought about UFOs. The president replied cannily, “I’d like to tell the public about the alien situation, but my hands are tied.” By whom?
Jimmy Carter said, at the 1976 Southern Governor’s Conference, “I don’t laugh at people . . . when they say they’ve seen UFOs. I’ve seen one myself. . . . It was big, it was very bright, it changed colors and was about the size of the moon.” He promised to make all UFO secrets available to the public if he ever became president. Well, he did . . . but then he didn’t. Why not? The American public deserves a better explanation than that thus far given by the U.S. Air Force. I strongly recommend . . . a committee investigation of the UFO phenomena. I think we owe it to the people to establish credibility regarding UFOs and to produce the greatest possible enlightenment on the subject.
—GE R A L D F OR D, U.S. president
• Ronald Reagan saw a UFO while he was governor of California. A bright white light accompanied his plane, zigzagging around it for several minutes before sud¬denly whooshing straight up out of sight. Reagan re¬ported the incident to his wife but never mentioned it publicly for fear of being labeled a nut case. Years later, during a private screening of ET, Reagan reportedly turned to Steven Spielberg and whispered, “Only a handful of people know the truth about this.”
What about UFO crews? At least one president is supposed to have been in on the secret.
• The widow of legendary TV comedian and actor Jackie Gleason claims that Gleason, known for his obsession with UFOs, was invited by golfing buddy President Nixon for a secret late-night visit to Homestead Air Force Base in Florida. There, Gleason confided to friends, they saw the remains of some half dozen wizened child-size humanoids. Some were mauled, as if they had been in an accident. The creatures had three or four fingers. Gleason was disturbed and excited by these beings, who were clearly “not human.” But he never understood why our government would hide the aliens from the public. Astronomers only cautiously comment on the probability of life elsewhere in the universe, even in “our local corner of the Milky Way.”
Scientists avoid sensationalism, since voicing hot-button opinions can damage reputations and derail careers. Few univer¬sities award professorships, or even grants—let alone tenure—to loonies who support ideas like aliens already here, humans mat¬ing with offworlders, secret interplanetary power-sharing deals. Hence the lukewarm assessments of the probability of contact with alien life any time soon.
For one thing, galactic distances (as we understand the idea) are unimaginably vast. Even traveling near the speed of light, journeys to all but the nearest stars would take longer than hu¬mans currently live. Such trips would take hundreds, even thou¬sands, of Earth years. Even one-way visits would require revolutionary improvements in spaceships, astronauts, and equipment—solutions to fundamental problems of physics and human biology. Not to mention human boredom.
And even assuming a return to Earth, it would not be the Earth the travelers had left behind, but one inhabited by very distant descendants.
9. LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION. The most likely spots for alien life in our solar system is underground on Mars, the hot spot on Saturn’s moon Enceladus (its South Pole is dotted with geysers), and Jupiter’s moons Europa and Callisto, whose icy crusts may conceal vast underlying oceans of water.
Speaking of icy, one marine bacterium (Colwellia 34H) sporting around in the Arctic ocean not only survives but burns enough energy to reproduce—at MINUS 196 Celsius. Talk about sexual determination at the cellular level! That’s weather on the Martian surface, or in the liquid methane riv¬ers of Saturn’s moon Titan. This little bug would be right at home either place, theorizes microbiologist Dr. Karen Junge of the University of Washington’s Department of Earth and Space Sciences and NASA’s Astrobiology Institute.
10. HEY, HOTEP—DIDJA SEE THAT? Perhaps the earliest UFO sighting occurred in 1450 B.C., when Egyptians saw bright circles of light in the sky. Some UFO obsessives interpret Ezekiel:1 in the Bible as a UFO report.
Ezekiel describes the beings he saw (four wings, four faces, etc.), plus flaming wheels and hoopla. Landing craft? Probes? Hallucination? It is interesting how Ezekiel’s aliens (or angels or devils) differ from more recent historical ac¬counts of little gray smooth unspectacular individuals, emerg¬ing from quietly humming or whooshing craft.
What if UFOs are not, as we assume, vehicles, but or¬ganisms from an evolution based not on carbon but on iron, silicon, or neon? Or even electrons? Flowers? Gamma rays? What if UFOs are writing implements, musical instruments, or other tools from cultures we can’t imagine?
Most people who believe in extraterrestrials assume they’re from advanced civilizations on other planets. They can get here; we can’t go there. Rats! Our frustration is like the sixteenth-century Aztec frustration with Spaniards— creatures from inconceivably far away—who walked among them. Indeed, Spaniards did more than walk among the Aztecs. They slept among them. Similarly, interbreeding and sexual experimentation constitute a popular variation of the alien invasion theory.

[moshu]

11. BLAME IT ON THE BOSSA NOVA. In 1957, Antonio Vilas Boas, a Brazilian farmer, reported that he was abducted by barking aliens, who covered him in gel and mated with him. Barking? Barking? Another account of the same incident describes the seducer as an attractive naked blonde humanoid woman—entirely un-doglike—who growled. But did she take him to dinner first? Many sexual abductions seem to involve farmers, men on fishing expeditions, or rural folks. Is that because aliens pre¬fer to operate in remote areas with less likelihood of detection or interference? Because their rural prey have a healthy outdoor look?
Some alien attacks are even more frightening than sex.
On the evening of August 21, 1955, at the Sutton farm near Kelly-Hopkinsville, Kentucky, a family and house guests—11 in all—fought off an apparent attack by strange little beings who arrived in a glowing UFO. Described as 3- to 4-foot-tall creatures with huge eyes, minimal mouths, slender short legs, and clawlike hands, they approached the house, whereupon the frightened family opened fire with hunting rifles. The bullets had no effect. The battle continued all night, with the family finally driving away for help. Police found no aliens, only bullet holes and spent shells. After the officers left, the aliens returned to continue the siege. Subsequent Air Force investigations found no solid evidence of aliens, and many dismissed the incident as a hoax. But the Suttons and their guests were not drunks, and they had no reason to damage their home just for a prank. Several witnesses, interviewed separately, drew sketches of the aliens that were remarkably similar. Many now believe that the event happened as described.
One well-documented multiple abduction occurred in the Allagash waterway, in northern Maine, one night in August, 1976, when four friends were canoe fishing. They saw a gleaming UFO hovering above the tree line, about 80 feet in diameter, changing colors: green, red, yellow. When one man signaled with his flash¬light, the UFO swooped down toward the terrified men, who paddled frantically toward shore. A blinding beam of light from the UFO engulfed them and their canoe. The next thing they recall is being on the bank at their campsite, their blazing bonfire unaccountably reduced to glowing ashes. Obviously, they were missing several hours of their lives. They didn’t talk about it. Once home, the men began having nightmares. They were put under regressive hypnosis, and a composite story emerged. Humanoid beings with metallic eyes and insect-like claws had abducted them and subjected them to physical examinations—even removing bodily fluids—before returning them to the ground. By chance, all four were trained artists (friends since art school), and they drew vivid sketches of the aliens, the examination room, and implements the aliens used. All four men passed a lie detector test. Verdict: who knows?
• Skywatch International and the National UFO Report¬ing Center investigated a spooky incident on the night of September 27, 2000, when four hunters camping in the Idaho forests were terrorized by an enormous (football-field-sized) triangular ship hovering in the sky above their heads, flashing lights. When it whooshed away “like a hockey puck gliding over ice,” they broke camp and whooshed away to a motel several hours’ drive away. Official explanation: “Unexplained.” (Note: A Google Earth photo taken from space is claimed by some to show just such a triangular craft over Western Australia, allegedly checking out a “secret U.S. military base.” The photo may be doctored, and the base may not exist, but on the other hand . . . )

[moshu]

12. WISHFUL THINKING? In a 2003 Harvard study, 70% of self-professed abductees stated under hypnosis that they had been used for breeding or sexual experiments by their alien captors.
These accounts parallel medieval reports of men seduced by succubi or women violated by incubi. Many historical, folkloric, and biblical accounts show remarkable similarities between reported activities of demons, angels, fairies, or other spirits . . . and aliens. Mythology has many legends of “gods and goddesses” mating with humans.
Many UFO “abductees” reveal their experiences under hypnosis. This is not proof that the abduction really happened; it only shows that subjects believe the experience was real.
According to Harvard psychologist Susan Clancy, hyp¬nosis makes it easier for people not only to recall experiences but also to construct “false memories.” This is largely because hypnosis “stimulates the imagination and relaxes reality con¬straints,” she suggests.
First thing I wonder . . . is how these aliens can be so stupid. If they’re smart enough to fly between the stars as easily as we fly from D.C. to Montana, they should be able to figure out our basic anatomy. But during just about every abduction, it takes them hours to figure out that our navels are not our reproductive organs. Why don’t they share that information with other ships? Why do they find our bellybuttons so fascinating?

13. HARD TO SEE THE CONNECTION, BUT . . . Allen Cheyne, a psychologist at the University of Waterloo in Ontario, says
that those who believe they’ve been abducted by aliens are often prone to experiencing sleep paralysis.
As reported in the Washington Post (11/20/2005), psy¬chologist Frederick V. Malmstrom, visiting scholar at the Air Force Academy, notes that most self-proclaimed alien ab¬ductees describe their captors about the same way: little crea¬tures with big heads and eyes, virtually no mouth or ears, grayish skin, smooth features.
He suggests that they may be unconsciously describing the “prototypical female face” as seen through a newborn’s fuzzy vision, which tends to diffuse facial features into blurry blobs— like huge, wide-angle alien eyes. This facial template is in the brain’s hard wiring, designed to enhance a baby’s bonding with the mother. It is a survival mechanism, much as newly hatched chicks instinctively flee from shadows shaped like predators.
But what is Mommy doing in a UFO? Is that perception a subconscious yearning for the protection of her apron?
14. C’MON, GET IT OFF YOUR CHEST. In Newfoundland, sleep paralysis is called the “old hag” because it is associated with visions of an elderly woman crouching on the sleeper’s chest. In the West Indies, the phenomenon is said to occur when a ghost baby bounces on the snoozer.
Aliens are the ghost or devil stories of modern times. All cultures have some version of the creature “pressing down” or “sitting on” the victim’s chest. But why are so many of these apparitions “hags” or old women?
15. IN SPACE, NO ONE CAN HEAR YOU SNEEZE. Streptococcus mitis, a bacterium that infects the nose and throat, was inadvertently sent to the moon aboard the Surveyor 3 probe. The bugs were still alive when Apollo 12 astronauts retrieved the probe’s camera two and a half years later.
Bugs live. And stuff gets around—even alien stuff. Re¬cently Godfrey Louis, a physicist at Mahatma Gandhi University, speculated, in Astrophysics and Space Science, that unidentifiable red cells from two months of rain in Kerala, India, in 2001 may be alien microbes. The tiny reddish cells (10 microns across) lack DNA; yet, they can reproduce, even in water superheated to 600°F—more than twice the tem¬perature any earthly life form can survive. Are these alien bacteria that evolved on some high-temperature planet or adapted to brutal conditions in space?
Over 40 tons of cosmic dust drops onto the Earth’s sur¬face every day. How much of it contains living alien matter, or its building blocks? Exobiologists see evidence that this might be the case. Professor Milton Wainwright of Eng-land’s University of Sheffield stated on March 26, 2006, “These are living bacteria. . . . We think there are large quantities impinging on the Earth all the time.”
20. MAYBE WE’RE THE ALIENS. Maybe we are the aliens—or at least their offspring. Some theorists believe that space it¬self, not just the planets, is teeming with life. Supporters of “panspermia” offer the image of intergalactic life blowing like a wind across the universe, seeding planets with material to use in their particular evolutions.
This could be one answer to Fermi’s Paradox. Enrico Fermi (1901–1954), a Nobel Prize–winning Italian physicist, was subjected to a lengthy harangue about the certainty of intelligent life among the hundreds of billions of star systems. It was impossible, said a colleague, to believe that we are not regularly visited by technologically advanced beings. Fermi shrugged and quietly asked, “So, where is everybody?”
Short form answer: We’re right over here, Enrico.

[moshu]

Daca aveti rabdare sa cititi in ordine, veti ajunge la concluzia la care am ajuns si eu: extraterestrii provin din imaginatia omului. Dar demonii sunt reali.

[BoGdAn000]

Parerea mea e cu nu exista nici un extraterestru..duap cum zic si alti sunt demoni si sunt povesti create de americani pentru a spala creierul uman sa ii minta,totul e facut sa se piarda credinta umana....or fi extraterestri dar nu cei pe care ii stim noi.Dar nu are cum sa fie extraterestri fiindk Dumnezeu a dat viata,unui singur pamant ,pamantul pe care suntem noi.Cine crede in Dumnezeu,nu crede in aberatiile numite"Extrterestri".

[Trandafir_Alb]

Exista, cum sa nu?! Se numesc "romani" si traiesc pe planeta numita Romania. Cunosc tehnica de a trai in trecut, se dezvolta cu incetinitorul si sunt condusi de niste papusi de teatru sau cum le numesc ei: "politicieni cu diplome de la Spirulache Haret". Cand ajung la varsta de 18 ani si sunt capabili sa-si castige painea, decoleaza spre alte planete pentru a putea evolua.
Scuza-mi ironia, dar care-i rostul acestei intrebari pe un forum...ortodox...??? A stat cineva de vorba cu vreun "extraterestru" ca sa avem motiv sa ne batem capul cu asemenea subiecte?