Forum Crestin Ortodox Crestin Ortodox
 
 


Du-te înapoi   Forum Crestin Ortodox > Biserica Ortodoxa si alte religii > Biserici Protestante
Răspunde
 
Thread Tools Moduri de afișare
  #1  
Vechi 10.05.2015, 20:03:45
Barsaumas
Guest
 
Mesaje: n/a
Implicit Este posibil..? Daca da, penti au o legitimare mult mai veche decat cea oficiala...

http://prodigalthought.net/2011/02/1...ak-in-tongues/
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Vechi 10.05.2015, 23:30:43
GMihai's Avatar
GMihai GMihai is offline
Senior Member
 
Data înregistrării: 27.02.2015
Religia: Catolic
Mesaje: 1.577
Implicit

Adrian, legitimarea lor "oficială", adică conformă cu doctrina lor, este nițeluș mai veche de Calvin. Ei se legitimează oficial la Pentecost.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Vechi 11.05.2015, 00:54:46
Patrie si Credinta's Avatar
Patrie si Credinta Patrie si Credinta is offline
Senior Member
 
Data înregistrării: 24.05.2011
Locație: Ploiesti
Religia: Ortodox
Mesaje: 1.543
Send a message via Skype™ to Patrie si Credinta
Implicit

But being recently in Ancyra in Galatia, I found the church there greatly agitated by this novelty, not prophecy, as they call it, but rather false prophecy, as will be shown. Therefore, to the best of our ability, with the Lord’s help, we disputed in the church many days concerning these and other matters separately brought forward by them, so that the church rejoiced and was strengthened in the truth, and those of the opposite side were for the time confounded, and the adversaries were grieved.
5. The presbyters in the place, our fellow-presbyter Zoticus of Otrous also being present, requested us to leave a record of what had been said against the opposers of the truth. We did not do this, but we promised to write it out as soon as the Lord permitted us, and to send it to them speedily.”
231
6. Having said this with other things, in the beginning of his work, he proceeds to state the cause of the above-mentioned heresy as follows:
“Their opposition and their recent heresy which has separated them from the Church arose on the following account.
7. There is said to be a certain village called Ardabau in that part of Mysia, which borders upon Phrygia. There first, they say, when Gratus was proconsul of Asia, a recent convert, Montanus by name, through his unquenchable desire for leadership, gave the adversary opportunity against him. And he became beside himself, and being suddenly in a sort of frenzy and ecstasy, he raved, and began to babble and utter strange things, prophesying in a manner contrary to the constant custom of the Church handed down by tradition from the beginning.
8. Some of those who heard his spurious utterances at that time were indignant, and they rebuked him as one that was possessed, and that was under the control of a demon, and was led by a deceitful spirit, and was distracting the multitude; and they forbade him to talk, remembering the distinction drawn by the Lord and his warning to guard watchfully against the coming of false prophets. But others imagining themselves possessed of the Holy Spirit and of a prophetic gift, were elated and not a little puffed up; and forgetting the distinction of the Lord, they challenged the mad and insidious and seducing spirit, and were cheated and deceived by him. In consequence of this, he could no longer be held in check, so as to keep silence.
9. Thus by artifice, or rather by such a system of wicked craft, the devil, devising destruction for the disobedient, and being unworthily honored by them, secretly excited and inflamed their understandings which had already become estranged from the true faith. And he stirred up besides two women, and filled them with the false spirit, so that they talked wildly and unreasonably and strangely, like the person already mentioned. And the spirit pronounced them blessed as they rejoiced and gloried in him, and puffed them up by the magnitude of his promises. But sometimes he rebuked them openly in a wise and
faithful manner, that he might seem to be a reprover. But those of the Phrygians that were deceived were few in number.
“And the arrogant spirit taught them to revile the entire universal Church under heaven, because the spirit of false prophecy received neither honor from it nor entrance into it.
10. For the faithful in Asia met often in many places throughout Asia to consider this matter, and examined the novel utterances and pronounced them profane, and rejected the heresy, and thus these persons were expelled from the Church and debarred from communion.€
When those called to martyrdom from the Church for the truth of the faith have met with any of the so-called martyrs of the Phrygian heresy, they have separated from them, and died without any fellowship with them, because they did not wish to give their assent to the spirit of Montanus and the women. And that this is true and took place in our own time in Apamea on the Maeander, among those who suffered martyrdom with Gaius and Alexander of Eumenia, is well known.

Eusebiu de Cezareea, Istoria Bisericii, Cartea V, Capitolul 16. Circumstantele referitoare la Montanus si falsii sai profeti(The Circumstances related of Montanus and his False Prophets).
O nu, erezia lor are o vechime mult mai mare, dar din antichitate a fost condamnata.
Cum ar spune staretul din Cantica pentru Leibowitz, iadul are o imaginatie limitata acolo jos.
__________________
Every point of view is useful, even those that are wrong - if we can judge why a wrong view was accepted.

Last edited by Patrie si Credinta; 11.05.2015 at 01:00:39.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Vechi 11.05.2015, 19:02:58
catalin2 catalin2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Data înregistrării: 26.12.2007
Locație: Brasov
Religia: Ortodox
Mesaje: 9.666
Implicit

"Vorbirea in limbi" se regaseste in religiile pagane, chiar de asta erau acuzati penticostalii la inceput.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Vechi 11.05.2015, 19:52:22
DragosP's Avatar
DragosP DragosP is offline
Senior Member
 
Data înregistrării: 23.03.2011
Religia: Ortodox
Mesaje: 6.657
Implicit

Ce Barsa, crezi că ți-ai găsit în sfârșit prietenii?
__________________
Îmi cer scuze celor pe care i-am supărat!
"Trebuie sa mori înainte de a muri
Pentru a nu muri atunci când mori"
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Vechi 11.05.2015, 20:06:08
GMihai's Avatar
GMihai GMihai is offline
Senior Member
 
Data înregistrării: 27.02.2015
Religia: Catolic
Mesaje: 1.577
Implicit

Dragoș, dar nu știi exact la cine sau ce s-o fi gândit Adrian. Știi, îmi trece ceva prin minte - cineva care spune/scrie, din senin, pe neașteptate, cuvinte care nu prea au legătură cu ceea ce se discută, greu de înțeles, de multe ori fără cap și coadă, dar pe care le consideră foarte spirituale/duhovnicești.... o fi văzut Adrian o legătură cu darul vorbirii în limbi ? Hmmm....
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Vechi 12.05.2015, 01:13:50
Penticostalul Traditional Penticostalul Traditional is offline
Senior Member
 
Data înregistrării: 28.02.2015
Mesaje: 1.405
Implicit

Citat:
În prealabil postat de Patrie si Credinta Vezi mesajul
Eusebiu de Cezareea, Istoria Bisericii, Cartea V, Capitolul 16. Circumstantele referitoare la Montanus si falsii sai profeti
Eusebiu a avut de comentat si impotriva sfantului Atanasie, nu e de mirare ca nu-l "inghitea" pe Montanus.
Ei, daca l-ai fi intrebat pe Tertulian, ai fi primit cu totul alte raspunsuri
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Vechi 12.05.2015, 07:43:44
DragosP's Avatar
DragosP DragosP is offline
Senior Member
 
Data înregistrării: 23.03.2011
Religia: Ortodox
Mesaje: 6.657
Implicit

Citat:
În prealabil postat de GMihai Vezi mesajul
o fi văzut Adrian o legătură cu darul vorbirii în limbi ? Hmmm....
Indubitabil.
__________________
Îmi cer scuze celor pe care i-am supărat!
"Trebuie sa mori înainte de a muri
Pentru a nu muri atunci când mori"
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Vechi 12.05.2015, 10:44:00
Barsaumas
Guest
 
Mesaje: n/a
Implicit

Citat:
În prealabil postat de Penticostalul Traditional Vezi mesajul
Eusebiu a avut de comentat si impotriva sfantului Atanasie, nu e de mirare ca nu-l "inghitea" pe Montanus.
Ei, daca l-ai fi intrebat pe Tertulian, ai fi primit cu totul alte raspunsuri
Intr-adevar, Eusebiu ca persoana si convingerile sale, nu doar ce a scris, sta sub semnul indoielii, spiritual vorbind.
Ar fi interesant de facut o lista exhaustiva a tuturor personalitatilor din istoria Bisericii care au vorbit, fie si la un moment dat, in limbi.
Pana si Pr. Pruteanu recunoaste in parte, vorbitul in limbi ca glosolalie Bine, dupa aia o da la intors, conform loialitatii confesionale, si zice ca penti sunt, evident, "inselati" cica.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Vechi 12.05.2015, 11:07:48
DragosP's Avatar
DragosP DragosP is offline
Senior Member
 
Data înregistrării: 23.03.2011
Religia: Ortodox
Mesaje: 6.657
Implicit

Citat:
În prealabil postat de Barsaumas Vezi mesajul
Pana si Pr. Pruteanu recunoaste in parte, vorbitul in limbi ca glosolalie Bine, dupa aia o da la intors, conform loialitatii confesionale, si zice ca penti sunt, evident, "inselati" cica.
Aham. Și dacă nu-s înșelați, pe cale de consecință, ce-s?
__________________
Îmi cer scuze celor pe care i-am supărat!
"Trebuie sa mori înainte de a muri
Pentru a nu muri atunci când mori"
Reply With Quote
Răspunde

Thread Tools
Moduri de afișare