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  #101  
Vechi 18.10.2013, 22:47:37
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În prealabil postat de ovidiu b. Vezi mesajul
De acord cu tine, dar de ce să nu evităm ce putem evita...adică să nu vadă...să nu cultivăm acest obicei...deși există și la noi sub o altă formă (capra, urs amintite de Alin). Iar logica e alta...elimini un factor ce ar putea influența copilul (chiar și cu TV-ul).
de ce sa nu evitam?
stiu eu, din acelasi motiv pentru care burqa nu a fost niciodata la moda pe aici.


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În prealabil postat de ovidiu b. Vezi mesajul
Clar că nu. Dar de la ceva terifiant la ceva distractiv e cale lungă.
Ba nu. Din acelasi motiv pentru care ne plac in general montagne russeul si filmele horror.
Pt creier, terifiantul e distractiv, intr-un mediu controlat.
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  #102  
Vechi 18.10.2013, 23:20:57
ovidiu b.
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În prealabil postat de Patrie si Credinta Vezi mesajul
Ba nu. Din acelasi motiv pentru care ne plac in general montagne russeul si filmele horror.
Pt creier, terifiantul e distractiv, intr-un mediu controlat.
pentru o minte bolnavă
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  #103  
Vechi 18.10.2013, 23:28:08
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În prealabil postat de Patrie si Credinta Vezi mesajul
Pt creier, terifiantul e distractiv, intr-un mediu controlat.
Frumos spus! De fapt in spatele acestei afirmatii, realitatea spre care se dorea a tinde ar fi: "este placut sa poti controla lucrurile terifiante" ("placut" fiind un fel de original, in timp ce "distractiv" ar fi surogatul pe care unii incearca sa il vanda "in loc de"). un fel de sentiment de "bine". Dar de unde aceasta (posibila) dorinta/tendinta spre "control" a omului? Ce patima sta in spatele ei?
Intrebarea este: cum si cine controleaza de fapt lucrurile terifiante? Omul singur sau de fapt Dumnezeu face asta?
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Ca sub stapanirea Ta totdeauna fiind paziti, Tie slava sa inaltam, Tatalui si Fiului si Sfantului Duh, acum si pururea si in vecii vecilor
Amin.

Last edited by adam000; 18.10.2013 at 23:31:44.
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  #104  
Vechi 18.10.2013, 23:43:01
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În prealabil postat de ovidiu b. Vezi mesajul
pentru o minte bolnavă
sa inteleg ca consideri montagne russeul satanic?
si nu e nimic bolnav, cu totii facem asta, intr-un fel sau altul.
Andrenalina si endorfine si chestii.
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  #105  
Vechi 18.10.2013, 23:47:04
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În prealabil postat de adam000 Vezi mesajul
Frumos spus! De fapt in spatele acestei afirmatii, realitatea spre care se dorea a tinde ar fi: "este placut sa poti controla lucrurile terifiante" ("placut" fiind un fel de original, in timp ce "distractiv" ar fi surogatul pe care unii incearca sa il vanda "in loc de"). un fel de sentiment de "bine". Dar de unde aceasta (posibila) dorinta/tendinta spre "control" a omului? Ce patima sta in spatele ei?
Intrebarea este: cum si cine controleaza de fapt lucrurile terifiante? Omul singur sau de fapt Dumnezeu face asta?
e un coctail de endorfine si andrenalina eliberat de creier in momentul ala.
E un mic drog natural, care apare intr-o gramada de momente(stiti, de exemplu, cand ati muncit sau facut sport foarte mult, si ati trecut de oboseala, pana la o anumita stare de bine? Aceeasi chestie in alte concentratii)
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  #106  
Vechi 18.10.2013, 23:53:02
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În prealabil postat de Patrie si Credinta Vezi mesajul
sa inteleg ca consideri montagne russeul satanic?
Eram sigur că te legi montagne russe. Nu, de ce să-l consider satanic? Am scris undeva așa ceva?
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  #107  
Vechi 18.10.2013, 23:56:19
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În prealabil postat de ovidiu b. Vezi mesajul
Eram sigur că te legi montagne russe. Nu, de ce să-l consider satanic? Am scris undeva așa ceva?
pai daca au la baza acelasi mecanism in care frica devine amuzanta?
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  #108  
Vechi 19.10.2013, 00:36:47
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În prealabil postat de Patrie si Credinta Vezi mesajul
pai daca au la baza acelasi mecanism in care frica devine amuzanta?
Frica devine amuzanta numai in sporturi extreme sau in parcuri de distractie;niciodata nu am vazut sa devina amuzanta intr-o conjuctura satanica de genul filmelor cu spirite,cu posesii demonice,mutilarea si uciderea cu ura a oamenilor.
Aceste imagini iti strica pacea interioara pusa acolo de Duhul Sfant.Cum sa devina amuzant?Poate doar pentru diavolii care ne privesc cum ne desfatam cu actiunile lor dracesti.

Halloweenul,oricum este o sarbatoare pasnica pentru majoritatea americanilor,care au facut cu aceasta ocazie si o sarbatoare comerciala de mare renume.Copiii pleaca la adunat de bomboane,ca la colindul nostru romanesc unde se spune"ne dati,ori nu ne dati?"care are aproximativ aceasi valenta cu "treat or trick".

Ok,dar colindele si jocurile noastre pagane sunt bune,ca suntem romani deci si buricul pamantului,si cei mai credinciosi sub soare,si locuim si in gradina Maicii Domnului...
Mersul cu capra,cu steaua sunt bune,taiatul brazilor si sacrifiul animalelor sunt bune,dar costumatia si mersul dupa bomboane al americanilor sunt obiceiuri demonice...no mereti mai...


Pe mine nu ma scandalizeaza sarbatoarea lor nici costumele.Omul se imbraca in ce doreste el,isi alege un alter ego.De la actori celebri pana la sticle de mustar sau ketchup;de la zane,la ingeri,oameni de paie,politisti,doctori,animale sau personaje SF.
Am vazut pe net o poza in care niste copii s-au mascat in personaje biblice si sfinti,deci imaginatia este libera in acest sens.Vorba aia,spune-mi in ce costumezi ca sa-ti spun cine ai dori sa fii cu adevarat!
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  #109  
Vechi 19.10.2013, 03:20:24
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Steaua e colind crestin.

La baza, halloween-ul nu e sarbatoare americana. Americanii au preluat-o. Si daca romanii mai au si obiceiuri pagane care nu se cuvin, asta inseamna ca trebuie sa adoptam si obiceiurile altora? Titlul topicului e halloween romanesc, nu american. Si ce faci daca halloween-ul pica intr-o zi cand se comemoreaza un Sfant, cum e la englezi? Le serbezi pe amandoua?

Redau ce spune un Parinte ortodox din Anglia, poate intereseaza pe cineva:

A Winter’s Tale

Fr. Gregory

Today we commemorate St Aristobolus, one of the 70 Apostles who was commissioned by Christ to preach the gospel, (Luke 10:1). St Aristobolus was the brother of St Barnabas and tradition holds that he preached in Britain being consecrated in this task as the first Bishop of the Britons. A district in mid-Wales called Arwystli is reputedly named after him, so this may give an indication of places associated with his ministry. Nothing more is known of him. However we do know something of the native religion which St Aristobolus would have encountered in his journeys and work as an evangelist. It is a religion that has experienced something of a mini revival in our own times. It is a religion whose adherents worship, invoke, placate and celebrate nature and associated spirits. Today it is called by scholars “neopaganism,” an umbrella term under which shelters a number of diverse and reconstructed Celtic, Gaelic and Wiccan rites. Fairly constant across them all are two feasts by which the year is divided according to the seasons; the first, Beltane at the beginning of May, a spring festival and the second which concerns us today, Samhain at the beginning of November.

Something very similar to these festivals would have been known by St Aristobolus and indeed remnants and echoes of these religious practices endured for centuries, perhaps unbroken right up unto the present day. The 2001 census in the United Kingdom suggests that by self declaration there are approximately 42,000 neo-pagans in the country today, somewhat less than a statistical survey which extrapolated and number closer to quarter of a million. The reality is properly somewhere between the two, perhaps 100,000, about one third of the number of Orthodox. St Aristobolus would have envied that ratio as he was almost completely outnumbered in his own day by practising pagans. Nonetheless he and countless other Christian missionaries after him managed to overturn paganism and establish the Christian faith and Church in the hearts and the minds of the people. Today the so-called “old religion” is experiencing its revival, not necessarily and significantly in the numbers of true believers but in the impact of pagan culture in the national consciousness and popular practices of the homes, streets and media of this post-Christian society; which brings me of course the Hallowe’en, that modern rebranding of the Samhain eve of winter rites.

In its original form Samhain marked the transition from autumn to winter at the end of harvest and it was thought at this time that the veil between the living of the dead was thinned allowing possibly evil spirits to cross over and trouble the living. Dressing up in the garb of such evil spirits was just one means of avoiding their influence for being rather stupid they would be confused by appearances. Turnips or samnhnag would be hollowed out with carved faces to make lanterns and these were also used to ward off harmful spirits. The people would also light bonfires, two of that usually between which humans and livestock would walk in a cleansing ritual. Not all of these practices have been retained of course but many or most of them have simply been redressed in popular form and now constitute that rather annoying Hallowe’en pastime of harassing neighbours for money. In truth, the trick is in the cultural popularity of pagan rites; the treat in the gospel of Christ’s victory over death by which evil has been overthrown, hell despoiled and new life brought to the world.
Historically the policy of the Church in both East and West has been to set up feasts and festivals which liturgically and in the culture pick up the themes and questions raised by pagan rites and redirect them to Christ. Invariably these Christian festivals would deliberately be chosen to coincide with the pagan ones unless there was good reason to keep them in their original place. Christians in the East, however, were never faced with the precise cultural challenge of paganism in its eve of winter customs, typical of darker, colder northern Europe. So Emperor Leo VI, “the Wise” help the institute the feast of All Saints which came to be celebrated on the Sunday after Pentecost emphasising the connection between practical holiness and the gift of the Holy Spirit; this so done because there was no pressing local need to combat paganism which might have constrained him to suggest a different date.

In the West, Rome was fairly slow to respond but Pope Boniface ordered a celebration on the feast of the dedication of the Pantheon at Rome to our Lady and the Martyrs on 13 May 609. Interestingly this was on a pre-Christian pagan feast very similar to Samhain but not linked to winter called the feast of the Lemures, a time when malevolent and restless spirits of the dead were propitiated. Pope Gregory III over 100 years later moved the feast to 1 November with its more relevant Samhain connection for central and northern Europe and there it has remained ever since. The word Hallowe’en is a shortened form of the eve (the night before) All Hallows; “hallows” being the old English name for the saints, “the holy ones”.... as in the Lord’s Prayer: “Hallowed be Thy Name” or “Holy be Thy Name.” Later in the West, the feast of All Souls was instituted the day after on November 1st to commemorate the dead whose salvation in Christ was secure but whose journey to the Kingdom was not yet complete. There is no such feast in Orthodoxy since we do not have a comparable doctrine of Purgatory to which this feast of All Souls refers.

And so to the present-day with its resurgence of neo-pagan Hallowe’en customs and the baleful ignorance of a post-Christian population, many of whom simply do not see what all the fuss is about when Christians get prickly about little boys and girls dressing up in ghoulish costumes to roam the streets trick-or-treating and when the media starts churning out the usual crop of Hallowe’en horrors to keep the adults happy. Some Christians do go overboard on this. It’s almost as if they think that anyone who has been to a Hallowe’en party should repent and be exorcised. This is nonsense; the devil is rarely so blatant in his strategy. Far more dangerous is the insidious creep into popular culture of pagan themes and ideas which replace Christ’s victory over death with a very old fear of death and evil, prettified by silly customs to make it acceptable to the modern mind. Perhaps this even reflects the modern outlook which, in its supposed rationality, has no answers to the deeper questions of life and death now that it has banished the gospel from the public domain.

Given time I believe that this cultural erosion of Christian themes and of a Christian consciousness will make it even more difficult to re-evangelise this country… not impossible, just much more difficult. In the days of St Aristobolus, preaching the gospel from the base of a vanishingly small Christian minority was hugely difficult, but our forefathers had the great advantage of proclaiming a new and fresh message concerning life and death to a population who did not think, at least in respect of Christianity, that it knew it all already. This is the difficulty that we face today; people think they know what we are all about whereas in fact they don’t, and more especially because they think that Christianity is what either the Roman Catholic or Protestant traditions present it to be.

What then ought to be the response of the Orthodox to this deteriorating situation in the West? First we have to acknowledge a problem that we lack a celebration of All Saints (that is “All Hallows”) on 1st November. I think we ought to be petitioning our bishops to establish one. A solution may be found in moving the celebration of local saints from the Sundays after the feast of All Saints to November 1st. At least then we could have a liturgical celebration which addressed the issues and practices of our indigenous culture which would greatly assist our mission. Of course this presupposes that the Orthodox churches are actually interested in local mission! Don’t get me going on that one! Anyway, this is only a beginning, a first step. We need also to address the more fundamental issue of the de-Christianisation of our culture.
[...]
Oh and by the way… do let us try and find something else better for our kids to do tonight!

Audio aici: http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts...a_winters_tale
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  #110  
Vechi 19.10.2013, 03:59:49
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Google scrie altceva despre termenul de Halloween care vine din vechiul termen "all hallow eve",insemnand nici mai mult nici mai putin decat"noaptea tuturor sfintilor".

In fine,s-a mai spus romanii au sarbatorile lor traditionale(unele pagane,altele nu)ar trebui sa le pastram pe acelea ba chiar sa le dam o importanta exacerbate cum fac si alte natii.

O sarbatoare care-mi place foarte mult la mexicani este "La dia de los muertos"-o celebrare a parastasului celor adormiti direct in...cimitir :)
Acolo familiile tuturor decedatiilor se aduna,fac focuri,improvizeaza instalatii de lumina ,fac mancare apoi o impart intre ei in numele celor decedati,mananca si se veselesc pt cei apropiati.Daca nu ma insel,au si muzica si probabil o dusca de Tequilla.
:))
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Cuvine-se cu adevarat sa te fericim pe tine, Nascatoare de Dumnezeu, cea pururea fericita si prea nevinovata si Maica Dumnezeului nostru. Ceea ce esti mai cinstita decat Heruvimii si mai slavita fara de asemanare decat Serafimii, care fara stricaciune pe Dumnezeu-Cuvantul ai nascut, pe tine, cea cu adevarat Nascatoare de Dumnezeu, te marim.
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